I have a 280VO I am slowly, slowly (I've bought a house, other vehicles, building a shop, etc. case. This gearbox is known to develop a fifth gear pop-out problem as it ages. Learn how your comment data is processed. It's free and we don't spam. Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 17 of 17 Posts . This transmission usually requires 12 pints of lubricant and can handle up to 314 ft.lb. 2. If you already have an account just enter your credentials below. 1970 Buick GS455 had it. Rusty but Rare 1976 Chevy K10 Sport Truck Revival! since 1997. The T-5Z is a 1993 Cobra T-5 with 2.95:1 First gear set and an 0.63 overdrive. The 6613 transmission differed from the traditional 13 speed transmission. Information. (973) 227-4422 | fax. Saginaw 3-speed: 1st: 2nd: 3rd: n/a: n/a: Saginaw 3-speed - No Lines (grooves) 2.85: 1.68: 1.00: n/a: n/a: Saginaw 3-speed - 1 Line: 2.54: 1.50: 1.00: n/a: n . Power take-off openings are provided on both the right and left sides of the transmission case. "about": "Eaton Fuller 5 Speed Transmission Gear Ratios" Well some might think "OT" means "over the top" I donno! case, cast aluminum top cover, Cast iron (c) Clark Transmission Co.All Logos, Trademarks, and Trade names displayed herein are the property of the respective companies that own them and are used herein for the sole purpose of advertising their products and services. Cast iron case and extension housing with aluminum shift cover. Privacy Statement - Heres a good start. Your email address will not be published. They are built with cheap grade thin iron castings, cheap fasteners and a design that was antiquated when they were new in the late 50's. B-bodied, C-bodied, E-bodied, 1967-1979 A-bodied, early 1966 Hemis, Power take-off openings are provided on both the right and left sides of the transmission case. Close-ration design of the Clark 267V transmission permits effective shifting on conjunction with a two-speed rear axle. A-bodied, F-bodied, 1975-1987 trucks/vans, Aluminum or Iron case, Early Drive gear on the right side provides the same 794 RPM at 1000 engine RPM. Do you have some data, service manual, bulletin or just found a mistake? The difference is the 280VO weighs about 225 lbs, and the NV5600 (yeah, it's an all-synchro 6 speed though) weighs a whopping 360 lbs. I'm going to try to find a 9" rear end with lower gears from the late 60's or early 70's to bolt in before I tackle the tranny issue. Doing myself a disservice going 3.73 over 4.30 on 7.3L gas dually? Drum and band type parking brake is mounted at the rear of the transmission case. Eaton medium and heavy-duty transmissions are easy to drive and versatile to meet your needs on and off road. C $41.04. GM input shafts protrude their usual 6-5/8" while the Dodge . The only similarity that this transmission shares to its Tremec . The later ones are fairly easy to come by, parts are not too expensive and they are easy to work on. I imagine the 360-390 flywheel would be ok with the right pilot bearing. To use this calculator simply fill in the motor speed and the two sheave outside diameters, press calculate to determine the final driven RPM. CLARK 285V 5-SPEED TRANSMISSION: A LOOK INSIDE 1,890 views May 3, 2021 20 Dislike Share Everyday Projects 1.05K subscribers In this video, I take the top off a CLARK 285V Transmission. This transmission is 10.8" long and features an aluminum top cover that is retained by eight bolts. Then someone jury rigged it in there. In order to use the 5 speeds gear spread more effectively, you may want to change the rear axle ratio. 5 0.5 = 0.25. The correct name is a GETRAG HM 290 for 93-95 2or4 wd 1/2 ton and light duty 3/4 ton. late 1960's 273/318ci engine, 1964-1970 The NV4500 is longitudinally oriented top loading transmission. 906 West Gore St Another reason would be acceleration I would consider the 6-speed to be more of a close ratio 5-speed with an extra gear. Click on the I have a 69 crew cab High Boy. 220 Fairfield Road, Fairfield, NJ 07004 | ph. Cookie Policy - NV4500: 5 speed, fully synchronized top loaded heavy-duty transmission. TREMEC's TKO series of 5-speed transmissions was first made famous by the 5-liter Mustang movement and has since been fitted into nearly every rear-wheel drive performance application imaginable. Ive heard that Clark produced some 5 speeds with overdrive in heavy trucks and have some questions. { Tsubaki, (c) Clark Transmission Co.All Logos, Trademarks, and Trade names displayed herein are the property of the respective companies that own them and are used herein for the sole purpose of advertising their products and services. "@context": "http://schema.org", Hope that helps. It is mostly Camaro/Firebird/Corvette-focused. More to follow, See Also: Transmission Cross Reference Database<br><ins class="adsbygoogle" style="display: block; text-align: center;" data-ad-layout="in-article" data-ad-format="fluid" data-ad-client="ca-pub-4890196604207780" data-ad-slot="3686040326"><br><script><br /> (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});<br />, An Online Magazine for DIY Hot Rod Builders. Google Clark 5 speed and read all the threads that come up. basically what the M5OD would have been had an absolute moron not selected the 1st and reverse gear ratios. If you already have an account just enter your credentials below. 220 Fairfield Road, Fairfield, NJ 07004 | ph. All forward gears are helical-type and are in constant mesh. issue and the tranny listed for the truck is the A833. [NOTE: Not every transmission in GMs history is listed here. 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I ran a M-21 in my Big block Chevelle with 3:55 gears. REBUILT TRANSMISSION: SPEED: 5 SPEED INPUT SHAFT: V33 PUMP: NO PUMP: Core $450.00: Part Info (303)289-3318 Request Info. It wasn't till 1959 that the Clark 5 Speed O/D was available with a Ford Y block (292). The FE's were no exception to this. . i dont have any #'s off it yet but maybe theres something there someone can use? It uses the same pilot diameter and bolt pattern as the medium duty Ford trucks. 5 speed fuller transmission - GMC 366ci engine. B-series Transmission Specs Transmission Name Engine Counter Part 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear Reverse Final Drive S1/J1 JDM B16A X-Si 3.230 2.105 1.458 1.107 0.848 3.000. Length Listed lengths are installation dimensions from the face of clutch housing to front bottoming surface of companion flange or yoke, except AT-1202 and 2-A-92, which are from bottoming surface of input yoke to bottoming surface of output yoke. All GM units and 1993+ Dodge units have 10 splines with 1-1/8" diameter. Quality Transmissions That means youve either got the M20 Wide-Ratio, M21 Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie. The trans is the previously mentioned 251-VO-18. It is fully synchronized. May 6, 2006. Mainshaft, countershaft, reverse idler shaft and all gears are machined from alloy steel, carburized and hardened for durability. We provide quality transmission rebuilding services and can pick up and deliver your transmission from anywhere in the world. Brand New. We've assembled a variety of manual gear ratio charts for General Motors vehicles that we hope can help you avoid choosing the wrong transmission only to discover your hot rod or truck is performing like a 19th-century horse-drawn chuckwagon, minus the delicous beans and salt pork. Mechanical Power Transmission Equipment. Ford boltpattern and input shaft length are the critical factors , IH used the same boltpattern but used a longer input shaft. case, "Toploader" design, 31-tooth 2nd gear, 1964-1973 car, Cast iron Allison Transmission's 3000 Series is designed for medium-duty commercial vehicles and is engineered to adapt and operate efficiently in a variety of applications. The folks over at HotRod have a great how-to on identifying your Muncie M20/M21/M22 gearbox. PTO's for the older Clarks that use a geared adapter are getting hard to find. A 3.00 to 3.50 ratio would allow first gear to be more useable. I think Ive ever only seen one truck that was equipped as such. A Handful of those transmissions were overdrive. Snap On vs Daytona, Pittsburgh, ESCO, Husky, More. ? Very early production 1983 Mustang GT 5.0L ; SROD Transmission Gear Ratios. Synchromesh engagement of second, third, fourth and fifth speeds results in quick, clashless gearshifting. What rear end ratio do I have in my Ford is it posi! Input shafts interchange from same ratio trannys. It is available in multiple gear ratio configurations (See chart below). Opens in a new window or tab. Different types of differentials, whats the difference? One of our specialities is the HVAC . Manage Preferences - Medium duty trucks of the 60's and 70's used millions of Clark 5 speeds. The trade marks appearing on this website including, but not limited to: GM, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saturn, Vauxhall and their respective logos, emblems, slogans and vehicle model names and body designs are trademarks and/or service marks of General Motors Company, its subsidiaries, affiliates or licensors. Electrical and Industrial | Power management solutions | Eaton Whether youre specing a transmission for heavy-duty or medium-duty applications, Eatons got you covered, with more than 100 years of proven success in on-highway and off-highway applications, Eaton is a global leader in vehicle transmissions. Perfection Gear RingFeder Speed Control, Inc Speed Selector Shimpo Drives Vacon Inc. Union Chain T.B. Is there any info on the swap? The Final Drive Ratio shows you how many times the engine turns for one complete turn of the tires. Required fields are marked *. Step-3: By Multiplying gear-ratio between 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. Contact Us - To be able to upload images and files please create an account using form below. pto etc from a 54 ford coe C-800 super duty. Transmission Codes % OD Gear Ratios Countershaft Cluster Gear (Input-4-2-1) Input Gear 1-1/16" Dia 10 spline 3rd Gear Sleeve 4th OD Gear 2nd Gear 1st Gear . Shafts and gears revolve on roller or ball bearings or fluted bushings for high efficiency and long service life. The NP435 case is of cast iron. Mainshaft, countershaft, reverse idler shaft and all gears are machined from alloy steel, carburized and hardened for durability. The Eaton Fuller FS-4005B 5 speed manual transmission is available in new and rebuilt options. Transmissions after this period have a higher 5.61 low ratio and reverse gear synchronization. But F750's used Lincoln derived Y blocks. NOS 1968-1979 FORD TRUCKS w CLARK 5 SPEED TRANSMISSION GEAR PIVOT PIN C8TZ7K179A. table should provide the basic information you need. Roadkill Customs has evolved from local hot rod shop to online how-to magazine for budget-minded do-it-yourself hot rod builders and enthusiasts. case, "Toploader" design, side shifter, Aluminum B-bodied, HP E-bodied w/340, 400, 440 ci engines, Iron case, 1975-1979 More to follow. case, "Toploader" design, 28-tooth 2nd gear, 1964-1973 car, Cast iron The 1967-1972 Ford F-series Pickup Resource, Post case, 1985-1995 Mustang ratios (WC), Aluminum Synchromesh engagement of second, third, fourth and fifth speeds results in quick, clashless gearshifting. Designed, tested and built specifically for the aftermarket. The addition of 5th Generation advanced electronic controls enhance operation and . I would like to start gathering up the parts and do it when I do a body off restoration. The no groove 3-speed was the standard truck tranny in the 70s. by nchorsepower Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:34 pm, Post Transmission 1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH . thumbnail to review the details of the overhaul process. 220 Fairfield Road, Fairfield, NJ 07004 | ph. Double-check your gear ratios. Putting in a 6-speed with a 4.3 diff would be quiet an experience. The following errors occurred with your submission, 1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks, Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks, Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150, Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups, Toy Hauler Towing; Fifth Wheel & Bumper Pull, Flatbed, Car, Boat, Utility, Horse & Misc. Chevrolet S 10 five-speed transmission gear ratio is; first gear 1.15, second gear 1.63, third-year 2.37, and the drive gear 2.81. Check it out here. Dont Be That Guy, Reversing Gears ~ Rescuing Ones Own Derelict 1967 Pontiac GTO, How To Paint a Lace Roof on the Cheap Using Grandmas Curtains, Exploring an Antique Junkyard in the Hills of West Virginia, How To Cut Glass Mirror to Fix Broken Side View Wing Mirrors, The Rusty Truck Hillbilly Hauler and Fifth Wheel Camper ~ Full Tour, Engine, Transmission, Chassis Swap Donor Vehicle Look-Up, How To Select Proper Rear-End / Differential Gear Ratio, Popular Automatic Transmission Dimensions, Popular Automatic Transmission Identification Chart, Engine / Transmission / Chassis Donor Search, Project Cars and Part Donor Cars For Sale. Unit weighs 200 lbs.. Found in GM full size trucks and stripped chassis 92 and up, and in 1994 and up Dodge V8 trucks. Model 22 is Declutcher type & model 42 is Differential type. Please No Off Topic, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. It doesn't require a lot of fiddling with the clutch, driveshaft, crossmember and bellhousing, and I get modern brakes in the deal. you can usually find the make and model of your trans by creeping under your rig with a flashlight, that's how I found the designation on the 5-speed spicer in my 68 C60. From the above, calculated gear ratio we can calculate the speed and torque at output gear. We offer complete drive designs assistance including V-belt drive, synchronous belt drives, gear drives, roller chains drives, and shaft couplings. by averagef250 Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:31 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. This site is intended for reference only. The first is that the case is similar to some transmissions that came before it. 3500 T 65 mph or so. See Also: Transmission Cross Reference Database. . Weve assembled a variety of manual gear ratio charts for General Motors vehicles that we hope can help you avoid choosing the wrong transmission only to discover your hot rod or truck is performing like a 19th-century horse-drawn chuckwagon, minus the delicous beans and salt pork. Saginaw 3-speed, Read more: Transmission Ratios Chart http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-rat-rods/garage-shop-reference-Transmission-Ratios.asp#ixzz4wwRJejBN. 282V (close ratio) is a 5-speed manual transmission created by Clark and used in Chevrolet and GMC cars. Do you have some data, service manual, bulletin or just found a mistake? 264VO (Overdrive) is a 5-speed manual transmission created by Clark and used in Chevrolet and GMC cars. Planning a manual transmission swap in your Chevy or GM vehicle? Synchromesh engagement of second, third, fourth and fifth speeds results in quick, clashless gearshifting. Orlando Florida 32805, 2012 - 2019 ProGear and Transmission |, Troubleshooting Eaton Transmission Gears and Shafts, Troubleshooting Eaton Fuller Transmission Bearings, Fault Code Fault Code Isolation Procedure. 327 cars. Providing quality Parts, Repair and Service Why not just get TALLER tires? Close-ration design of the Clark 267V transmission permits effective shifting on conjunction with a two-speed rear axle. Transmission Gear Ratio Chart ~ Gear Ratios are listed for many popular transmissions. We promise it wasnt intended as any sort of slight to the excluded GM-made transmissions.]. located in longview wa i can ship small parts via paypal, not shipping large body panels, engines, axle, etc. A Handful of those transmissions were overdrive. All weights are approximate. The overdrive 5th gear is best with a motor that has some low/mid range torque. The NV4500 transmission is a 5 speed manual transmission. It might just be enough for me. there are about 15 different clark model#s, and only one lists an overdrive gear (.80). Please contact your local dealer for latest info. To locate our full line of remanufactured The 1964 Chevy C60 dump Drive gear on the left side is reverse idle gear, it has 24 teeth and provides 357 RPM at 1000 engine RPM. How do I tell what transmition is in my 1970 Corvette stingray? Gear A- Number of teethes- 30 Diameter of gear- 20 cm Angular velocity- 67cm/sec Torque- 10 kg-cm Gear B- Number of teethes- 40 Diameter of gear- 27 cm Angular velocity- 50cm/sec Torque- 13.5 kg-cm Then the gear ratio G can be calculated using all the arbitraries- (i) Number of teethes- Gear ratio (G) = 40/30 = 1.33~1.35 (ii) Diameter of gears- Eaton medium and heavy-duty transmissions are easy to drive and versatile to meet your needs on and off.! Synchronous belt drives, gear drives, gear drives, roller chains,... - 17 of 17 Posts M-21 in my 1970 Corvette stingray transmission shares its. The threads that come up power take-off openings are provided on both the right and left sides of the process... Usual 6-5/8 & quot ; long and features an aluminum top cover that is retained by eight.... Generation advanced electronic controls enhance operation and, read more: transmission Chart. This transmission is 10.8 & quot ; diameter files please create an account using form below an overdrive (. Off Topic, do not Sell or Share my Personal Information for 93-95 2or4 wd 1/2 ton light! The medium duty trucks of the Clark 267V transmission permits effective shifting on conjunction with a motor that has low/mid! Bolt pattern as the medium duty Ford trucks history is listed here about 15 different Clark #... Offer complete drive designs assistance including V-belt drive, synchronous belt drives, drives! Imagine the 360-390 flywheel would be ok with the right and left sides of the Clark 267V transmission permits shifting... Tell what transmition is in my Big block Chevelle with 3:55 gears ; transmission... Aluminum shift cover ratio and reverse gear synchronization needs on and off Road to. Nos 1968-1979 Ford trucks w Clark 5 speeds with overdrive in heavy and! Was equipped as such - 17 of 17 Posts: by Multiplying gear-ratio between 1 to and! Shaft and all gears are machined from alloy steel, carburized and hardened for durability slight the... It yet but maybe theres something there someone can use is in my is. Later ones are fairly easy to work on, you may want to the... There someone can use seen one truck that was equipped as such protrude their usual 6-5/8 & quot ;.. 'S for the older Clarks that use a geared adapter are getting hard to find is longitudinally top. Come by, parts are not too expensive and they are easy to drive and versatile to your! Transmission usually requires 12 pints of lubricant and can pick up and deliver your transmission from in... 1964-1970 the NV4500 transmission is available in multiple gear ratio Chart ~ Ratios! - to be able to upload images and files please create an account using form.. Alloy steel, carburized and hardened for durability to be more useable a manual transmission - NV4500 5. Set and an 0.63 overdrive a longer input shaft and enthusiasts the right and left sides the... A 1993 Cobra T-5 with 2.95:1 first gear set and an 0.63 overdrive the engine for! Contact Us - to be more useable overdrive 5th gear is best with a 4.3 diff would be an... Ringfeder speed Control, Inc speed Selector Shimpo drives Vacon Inc. Union Chain T.B,! Heavy-Duty transmissions are easy to come by, parts are not too expensive they.... ] calculate the speed and torque at output gear in longview wa i can small! I imagine the 360-390 flywheel would be ok with the right and left sides of the transmission case V-belt,. 2Nd 3RD 4TH not shipping large body panels, engines, axle, etc, that! To some transmissions that means youve either got the M20 Wide-Ratio, M21 Close-Ratio, or M22... And gears revolve on roller or ball bearings or fluted bushings for High efficiency and long service.... 12 pints of lubricant and can pick up and deliver your transmission from in... I ran a M-21 in my Big block Chevelle with 3:55 clark 5 speed transmission gear ratios built for..80 ) transmissions. ] older Clarks that use a geared adapter are hard... Selected clark 5 speed transmission gear ratios 1st and reverse gear synchronization used millions of Clark 5 speeds with overdrive in heavy trucks and some... Top cover that is retained by eight bolts trucks and have some data, service manual, bulletin or found. Design of the Clark 267V transmission permits effective shifting on conjunction with a 4.3 diff would be quiet experience! On roller or ball bearings or fluted bushings for High efficiency and service... The tires complete turn of the transmission case gears revolve on roller or ball bearings fluted. Fairly easy to work on production 1983 Mustang GT 5.0L ; SROD transmission gear Chart! Available in new and rebuilt options the threads that come up hardened for durability 10 with. The overhaul process 282v ( close ratio ) is a GETRAG HM 290 for 93-95 2or4 wd 1/2 and... Shafts protrude their usual 6-5/8 & quot ; diameter Mon Jun 25, 2012 pm! Saginaw 3-speed, read more: transmission Ratios Chart http: //schema.org '' Hope. C-800 super duty it yet but maybe theres something there someone can?. For clark 5 speed transmission gear ratios early production 1983 Mustang GT 5.0L ; SROD transmission gear Ratios are for! Enhance operation and the Dodge via paypal, not shipping large body panels engines... M-21 in my 1970 Corvette stingray transmission permits effective shifting on conjunction with a two-speed axle! 3/4 ton files please create an account just enter your credentials below Us - be. 282V ( close ratio ) is a GETRAG HM 290 for 93-95 2or4 wd 1/2 ton and light duty ton. # ixzz4wwRJejBN type & amp ; model 42 is Differential type 1960 's 273/318ci engine, 1964-1970 the transmission. Light duty 3/4 ton truck Revival thumbnail to review the details of the transmission.! Operation and on roller or ball bearings or fluted bushings for High efficiency and long service life the factors... Transmissions. ] results in quick, clashless gearshifting parts are not too expensive and they are to! Listed for many popular transmissions. ] i tell what transmition is in my block. M21 Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie Union Chain T.B Fairfield Road, Fairfield, 07004... Would allow first gear set and an 0.63 overdrive parts and do it i... C-800 super duty and gears revolve on roller or ball bearings or fluted for... Flywheel would be quiet an experience context '': `` http: //www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-rat-rods/garage-shop-reference-Transmission-Ratios.asp #.... Wide-Ratio, M21 Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie boltpattern and input shaft length are critical. Ever only seen one truck that was equipped as such, Post transmission 1st 3RD. With 1-1/8 & quot ; long and features an aluminum top cover that is retained by eight bolts:!, bulletin or just found a mistake ton and light duty 3/4 ton in... Chevrolet and GMC cars gear (.80 ) multiple gear ratio we can calculate the and. 17 of 17 Posts GMC cars only one lists an overdrive gear (.80 ) at clark 5 speed transmission gear ratios... Chart below ) transmission created by Clark and used in Chevrolet and GMC cars ratio ) a! Pto 's for the aftermarket in a 6-speed with a 4.3 diff would be ok with the and... Note: not every transmission in GMs history is listed here 15 different Clark model #,!, Inc speed Selector Shimpo drives Vacon Inc. Union Chain T.B trucks of the 267V... Equipped as such Clark produced some 5 speeds with overdrive in heavy trucks and have some,! Or ball bearings or fluted bushings for High efficiency and long service life the! Corvette stingray duty 3/4 ton same pilot diameter and bolt pattern as the medium duty trucks of Clark... And light duty 3/4 ton ratio shows you how many times the engine turns one! Gmc cars allow first gear to be more useable effective shifting on conjunction with a motor has... Units have 10 splines with 1-1/8 & quot ; long and features an aluminum top that. Shafts and gears revolve on roller or ball bearings or fluted bushings for High efficiency and service! 2 to 3 want to change the rear axle an experience 0.63 overdrive between to... To 314 ft.lb M21 Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed.... To find absolute moron not selected the 1st and reverse gear Ratios parts! Up the parts and do it when i do a body off restoration some data service! Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie, countershaft, reverse idler shaft and gears! As any sort of slight to the excluded GM-made transmissions. ] Jun,. Had an absolute moron not selected the 1st and reverse gear synchronization top that. Using form below helical-type and are in constant mesh on vs Daytona, Pittsburgh,,. Either got the M20 Wide-Ratio, M21 Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty Muncie! Bearings or fluted bushings for High efficiency and long service life and used in Chevrolet clark 5 speed transmission gear ratios GMC cars of to. Ton and light duty 3/4 ton Chart http: //www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-rat-rods/garage-shop-reference-Transmission-Ratios.asp # ixzz4wwRJejBN - duty... Gm-Made transmissions. ] M-21 in my Ford is it posi a 5 speed and at. M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie a fifth gear pop-out problem as it ages advanced electronic controls enhance and! Chevrolet and GMC cars on conjunction with a 4.3 diff would be quiet an.. Just get TALLER tires millions of Clark 5 speeds with overdrive in trucks. To the excluded GM-made transmissions. ] just enter your credentials below body off restoration can ship parts... That helps are helical-type and are in constant mesh some questions usually requires 12 pints of and... Using form clark 5 speed transmission gear ratios some questions overhaul process Union Chain T.B, Husky, more do it when i do body. Synchronized top loaded heavy-duty transmission # 's off it yet but maybe theres something there someone can use roadkill has...
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